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Discuss anything about DLC

Postby Krom » Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:23 am

I went into TBC with 6 piece T3/2 piece wrath and I'm now down to 2 piece T3 (shoulders/boots) and the rest is a mix of 5 man blues and Karazhan epics. 504 defense (more than I need really), 12k armor and 12.8k unbuffed HP means I don't get crit and incoming damage is fairly steady.

As to your comment about priority, it's a very good point. It doesn't usually apply in raids, but in 5 mans you gotta balance who you want to save first. ie: Healers first and Keydar last :) (Bladeflurry on untouched (by me) mobs is 4tl).
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Postby Venia » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:13 am

My first tanking experience in TBC was Hellfire Ramparts (4-mob packs) with a Multishot eager hunter, a Sweeping-Strikes eager warrior and a mage.

... Oh the overaggro.
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Postby Luzia » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:21 am

Venia, wait till you hit Karazan. Your 4 mobs will be nothing beside that :P. Mobs in Kara hits from 2.5k to 5k dmgs and they are mostly undead(cannot sheep!!! :( ). They come from pack by 5 elites to 8 non-elites. Pretty hard to keep the aggro when people AoE attack when it's not the time. Also, you can be at max 10 (and you should be, otherwise... good luck). It's a pretty hard piece of work but the loots are worth it! :)

Also, to the Spellsteal Comic. That was an awsome one :). Keep going. They are awsome :D .
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Postby Knikker » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:21 am

Here's one reason why I dont like gnomes :lol:
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You ogres are soo ugly!
This gun isn't even loaded
C'mon, this SM/ruin cant cause THAT much threat
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Postby Luzia » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:25 am

Knikker wrote:Here's one reason why I dont like gnomes :lol:

Why don't you like em :cry: ! They are soooooo Cuuuute! :oops:
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Postby Zaragor » Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:49 am

Choppermad wrote:
ThePrepared wrote:
Choppermad wrote:Just to clarify something i've been wondering, can you steal a Paloladins bubble with spell steal?

~Chop~


Nope, if you try to spellsteal a paladin in a bubble you will get the "immune" message and you will not get the bubble or any other buff that the paladin has active.


bet pala's whined in the beta, "oh noes i'm vunerable!!! i can't HS"


Well, it was expected, and acceptable, since we got a nice strike and the ability to tank in PVE. However, then blizz screwed up and nerfed our damage tree so much that a HEALING specced paladin can do more damage that a damage specced one. I don't really care about priest dispelling my shield, and most of them acually doesn't bother in PVP, since mass dispell costs tons of mana. Oh, and my spells have a 30% chance to avoid being dispelled :D

Venia wrote:Your tank shouldn't be getting crit. A lot of warriors these days I've noticed are busy humping high-stamina gear, which only gets so far.

Quite often my own gear has less stamina than other tanks - however - I have more defense, parry, and dodge than the others. This results in the little blue words in SCT (Parry/Block/Dodge) coming up far more often. It also means that odds of me getting crit in tanking gear are near zero. I've been told by countless healers that I'm 'easy' to heal as my mitigation is high - I don't require as much spamheal.

Not to mention that your warriors should be looking at replacing T3. I'm pretty sure there's a few better bits and pieces lying around - I know the only bit of my old armourkit I have left is my Wrath helmet (That I want GONE!).


.... Anyway, how this topic got onto tanking I durno. Generally whats been said has been good and sensible, but takes time and skill to learn. Also, one thing on Krom's list that was missing (Positioning/Mitigation/Threat) was Priority. More often than not in TBC instances you can be handling 5+ mobs at once, and at least one is BOUND to run off somewhere. A good tank knows what mobs to pick up, when, and who from.

More often than once I've let some cloth-wearing healermob get 'tanked' by a rogue while I peel some melee-nasty off a healer. It sounds like common sense, but I've seen too many tanks panic and mix priorities up.

and as for the if the mt dies the raid dies, that is true but our mt is my bro and he doesn't tend to piss me off, but i don't hesitate to let others die if they piss me off


Not entirely true. On Chromaggus, for example, I've leapt in at the last 10% after our MT died and tanked the last parts of the fight in DPS gear. If your MT dies and the raid wipes - slap your other warriors and let them know they should ALWAYS be prepared to tank.


That is soooo true with the druids who thinks armor and hp are the only things that counts when being a tank. Parry, and most importantly, BLOCK and DEFENCE are much more important than simply hp. Warriors get 10% less damage in defensive stance, which more than makes up for the druid's armor. Paladins takes 6% less damage from ALL sources and 10% less from spells. Paladin has base block chance+60% due to abilities which makes a paladins and warrior a better tank than a druid in most cases.

Not skilled people make this mistake, and tries to get a tank with only +sta and tons of armor, instead of tanks with REAL tanking stats like defence, block etc
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Postby Elanos » Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:40 am

That is soooo true with the druids who thinks armor and hp are the only things that counts when being a tank. Parry, and most importantly, BLOCK and DEFENCE are much more important than simply hp.


Everyone knows that. Yes, even us druids. ;) That's why we have a dodge chance in bearform that more or less equals the parry and block value warriors have. And in equal, I mean in %, not in how useful the skill is, because having more than one defensive counter is always better. Defense isn't that hard to build up for druids, yet much easier for warriors, and more needed. What brings druids down is spike damage.

Warriors get 10% less damage in defensive stance, which more than makes up for the druid's armor. Paladins takes 6% less damage from ALL sources and 10% less from spells. Paladin has base block chance+60% due to abilities which makes a paladins and warrior a better tank than a druid in most cases.


"Most cases". At the moment, a bear druid will take just a bit less damage than a prot warrior, when it comes to pure physical damage. On spells and such, warriors and paladins are better. I have experienced this myself when doing mana-tombs. Couldn't get past the first boss without having a warrior tanking because I didn't survive the voidblasts. -_- Rest of the instance was a walk. :P


Not skilled people make this mistake, and tries to get a tank with only +sta and tons of armor, instead of tanks with REAL tanking stats like defence, block etc


A bit silly of you to say this, mind you. ^^ A druid tank IS all stamina and armor, along with dodge. It's how we tank. As for defense, which is something every class builds up.. I have just as much if not more def than most warriors I meet. Let me have block and parry please. :D



Long post. I blame the whiners on the druid forums. :(

*Sits down in bearform with a large sign attatcked to his head, saying: "Have my babies, Cass!"*

Edit: I'm noobing around at level 67, so yes, I might have lacking experience. >=D
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Postby Krom » Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:24 am

Druids can't really compare block to anything. It's true that a druid can get dodge that's roughly equal to parry/dodge on a warrior. In that case the two classes are pretty equal considering total avoidance.

Block tends to be fairly inconsequential against slow heavy hitting mobs (as far as mitigating) and can be quite good against fast attacking but not hard hitting mobs. But, the reason a warrior will always > druid is what block does. With 25% block (not that hard to get) and imp shield block talent, a warrior can hit 100% block when the skill is up (pretty easy to do unless tanking mulitple mobs or an extremely fast attacking mob). When a combat roll is done to see what a mob does to you (miss, hit, crit, dodge, parry, crushing, block, etc.) alot of block will push crushing blows off the table. So, a warrior with high block value will get crushed far far less (2% or less), and with 490+ defense (quite easy to do) they will never get crit.

Overall a druid keeps damage down by having lots of armor, but against the top end raid mobs right now, a extremely well geared druid can reduce High King Maulgar's normal attacks (on a warrior) of around 6-8k down to 4-5... but, a druid is gonna take crushings and crits. A crushing will be around 6-8k and crits will be over 10k. A warrior will consistently take 6-8k every hit and it will rarely fluctuate out of that range. It's far easier to heal consistent damage intake than it is to take fluctuating burst.

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Postby Krom » Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:30 am

That being said, I think a druid would be a better off tank on Gruul. I won't go into many details on the fight, but Gruul has a hateful strike mechanic (like Patchwerk) that always hits the second highest person on aggro.

1) Well geared druids generate threat faster than a warrior (easier to stay in second)
2) With maxed out armor a druid would take far less damage from the hateful strike since hateful's cannot crush or crit (if they could it would be rediculously hard to heal through).

Druids weren't used much on Patchwerk, simply because of the raid requirements of that fight (hi2u16healers), but Gruul is alot more plausible for a extremely heavy feral druid offtank (hateful strikes hit me for roughly 4k early on in the fight, and as Gruul grows they hit harder. We've been wiping when he starts hitting me for 13-14k hatefuls, and the MT for 10k+ normals).
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Postby Jurn » Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:55 am

WHat krom said


ANd yes a druid is a great offtank on armor based fights they gain aggro like maniacs wich is kinda win and there HP/Armor is kinda insane
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Postby vemynal » Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:14 am

less druid talk more pally!^^

true that pallys are the best for tanking multiple mobs at once, and that if we get our defense rating past a certain point we actually begin to lose aggro due to our oppoinates inability to crit?
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Postby Krom » Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:36 pm

To some extent, Pally aggro is still essentially based on mana pool. Paladins are by far the best for holding aggro on multiple mobs, especially demons and undead (Followed by druids, then warriors). Since Pallies also get mana back when healed, they can generate a fair amount of threat before going dry (and can almost never go out of mana on fights which require alot of healing).

Main abilities are Seal of Righteousness/Command, Judgement of Righteousness/Command, Consecration, Holy Shield, Retribution Aura and Avengers Shield. Two abilities are AE (one requires ranged), 2 Abilities are reactive (mob must be hitting you) and Seals/Judgements which are your bread and butter. Plus Paladins have a taunt now which taunts up to 3 (I think!?) mobs on to you.

There's even decent Paladin tanking gear out there now with Stam, MP5 and Defense on it.
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Postby Zealia » Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:17 pm

its 3 from 1 target krom, its not really an aoe taunt like the warriors you have to select who you want to pull up to 3 mobs off
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Postby vemynal » Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:20 pm

but the mechanics are the same as a taunt


sadly i dont know if we will see any aoe specific tanking events other then maybe extra mobs during boss fights (ex: baby dragons in ony) or any bosses that deal specifically spell damage (which im fairly certain due to our auras/talent)

what do u think is a preferable tanking spec? ive read so many reports saying that seal of command is/isnt nessessary for tanking im completely lost on the matter >.>

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Postby Krom » Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:38 am

All I know is that a pally bubble taunt can be the most ass saving ability ever. And I've only ever seen one paladin use it :/

Step 1: Bubble
Step 2: Taunt
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit
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