Neutral Races?

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Postby TedTheBug » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:30 pm

Doesn't seem to me that the ogres are smart enough to join the Alliance...and I don't think that Tuskarr or Naga would just submit to a foreign group like that. As for murlocs...
Good idea thought, but maybe just different factions of goblins? Or possibly some kind of demon (like an ex-Legion soldier).
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Postby Axmak » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:57 pm

A little update......I said originally to chose a Faction to support.

I never said it was a requirement....i meant it to be like Aldor or Scryer. YOu could stay neutral the whole time......as for PvP, you know how you can choose what instance you want to enter the BG for? Well when you choose for the battlemaster. He will give you a choice....Aid Alliance, or Aid Horde.

Maybe you could play as the more intelligent neutral races....Goblins still stick out in my mind.....maybe Pandaren too
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Postby judgement14 » Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:15 pm

yeah well when a certain side is dominating than the neutrals will all go onto that side making it even worse
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Postby Lihonessa » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:12 pm

Axmak wrote:I never said it was a requirement....i meant it to be like Aldor or Scryer. YOu could stay neutral the whole time......


That would really make the entire game very unbalanced, and it's pretty much impossible. If they don't choose a faction later, they will be unable to quest in Alliance and Horde territories and unable to join PvP.

This is because not only WoW is programmed that way, but also because Blizzard doesn't want the game to die. They still need it for their money.
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Postby Axmak » Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:45 am

Lihonessa wrote:That would really make the entire game very unbalanced, and it's pretty much impossible. If they don't choose a faction later, they will be unable to quest in Alliance and Horde territories and unable to join PvP.


HOW?!

I said that they would always be neutral with both factions and you can choose to set it to a new thing....."Permanent neutral. You are currently not gaining reputation with the horde or alliance until you toggle this off."

As for PvP you have to choose the side you want to enter on....

Also.....You can get very good reputation out of Undermine.

But these all are good arguements
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Postby judgement14 » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:28 am

Axmak wrote:
Lihonessa wrote:That would really make the entire game very unbalanced, and it's pretty much impossible. If they don't choose a faction later, they will be unable to quest in Alliance and Horde territories and unable to join PvP.


HOW?!

I said that they would always be neutral with both factions and you can choose to set it to a new thing....."Permanent neutral. You are currently not gaining reputation with the horde or alliance until you toggle this off."

As for PvP you have to choose the side you want to enter on....

Also.....You can get very good reputation out of Undermine.

But these all are good arguements


wait if its permanent how do you toggle it off?
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Postby Renkonel » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:14 am

No you can't stay neutral that would be stupid, thats not what the games about.
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Postby Lihonessa » Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:05 am

Axmak wrote:HOW?!

I said that they would always be neutral with both factions and you can choose to set it to a new thing....."Permanent neutral. You are currently not gaining reputation with the horde or alliance until you toggle this off."

As for PvP you have to choose the side you want to enter on....

Also.....You can get very good reputation out of Undermine.

But these all are good arguements


No, they're not.

1. Permanent Neutral? So that means you'd be unable to gain any rep wherever you quest, and thus you'll basically be unable to quest anywhere until you turn it off. For newbies at the Neutral Races, this will be very bothersome, and thus it's a lot better to choose a side at a specific level. And because of issues such as guilds and quests, this should stay a permanent choice.

2. You can only enter PvP at one side, because WoW is programmed that way. Your faction automatically determines who your enemies are and where you spawn. It's not like every single specific character is checked to see where he goes! It's all automated systems, and if those get modified, entire battlegrounds could glitch up.

3. Good reputation out of the Undermine... with what? Permanent Neutral, remember? And if it's rep with the Undermine, what's the use of it? All quest area's in the game have nothing to do with the Undermine right now, and thus you won't be able to get rep there. Wanna get to Exalted? Grind the newbie level 1-10 mobs for a couple of weeks! No, that wouldn't be a good choice. And I honestly doubt that Blizzard will or should create new areas for each specific Neutral race.

4. The game is about the war between the Horde and the Alliance, the rest is pretty much a filler to let you do something. Staying Neutral all the time wouldn't be much fun.
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Postby greenx » Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:52 am

a neutral race that sound good in warcraft the naga main camp is on broken islands at the north of the maelstrom the murloc too and your say the goblelin have an island in the maelstrom why not for the ogre
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Postby Lihonessa » Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:14 am

greenx wrote:a neutral race that sound good in warcraft the naga main camp is on broken islands at the north of the maelstrom the murloc too and your say the goblelin have an island in the maelstrom why not for the ogre


Naga:
-Deep-seeded hatred for land-dwelling races
-Does not have a main city

Murloc:
-Can only speak in their own language
-Hostile to nearly everything, including clans of their own race
-Does not have a main city

Goblin:
-Reskinned version of the Male Dwarven model

Ogre:
-Too large to be playable
-No female models in-game
-Does not have a main city (*)

(*) This does not include the Ogres in Ogri'la, but as shown by the red ogre in the Lower City, these Ogres rapidly lose their intelligence when separated from the Nether Crystals.

These are the reasons why none of them would make good playable races. In my opinion, the only race who might have only a very small chance to become playable is the Goblin, considering they already have several voices. They will need a new model, though.
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Postby Chatrata » Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:39 am

Lihonessa wrote:
greenx wrote:a neutral race that sound good in warcraft the naga main camp is on broken islands at the north of the maelstrom the murloc too and your say the goblelin have an island in the maelstrom why not for the ogre


Naga:
-Deep-seeded hatred for land-dwelling races
-Does not have a main city


Murloc:
-Can only speak in their own language
-Hostile to nearly everything, including clans of their own race
-Does not have a main city

Goblin:
-Reskinned version of the Male Dwarven model

Ogre:
-Too large to be playable
-No female models in-game
-Does not have a main city (*)

(*) This does not include the Ogres in Ogri'la, but as shown by the red ogre in the Lower City, these Ogres rapidly lose their intelligence when separated from the Nether Crystals.

These are the reasons why none of them would make good playable races. In my opinion, the only race who might have only a very small chance to become playable is the Goblin, considering they already have several voices. They will need a new model, though.


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Postby greenx » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:41 am

the naga can be a neutral race because they are blind to illidan and they have to many quest where we need to kill naga or ogre only the goblin can be a race
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Postby judgement14 » Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:37 pm

do you know how many times we have to kill Trolls tho?

theres at least 2 raids
and a couple instances

also we kill undead too
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Postby The Great JT » Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:04 pm

greenx wrote:a neutral race that sound good in warcraft the naga main camp is on broken islands at the north of the maelstrom the murloc too and your say the goblelin have an island in the maelstrom why not for the ogre

Naga:
-Deep-seeded hatred for land-dwelling races
-Does not have a main city

Murloc:
-Can only speak in their own language
-Hostile to nearly everything, including clans of their own race
-Does not have a main city

Goblin:
-Reskinned version of the Male Dwarven model

Ogre:
-Too large to be playable
-No female models in-game
-Does not have a main city (*)

(*) This does not include the Ogres in Ogri'la, but as shown by the red ogre in the Lower City, these Ogres rapidly lose their intelligence when separated from the Nether Crystals.

Allow me to fill in a few blanks. Green means plausable they could become playable, orange is neutral, red is unlikely.

Naga:
It's true the naga hate the land-dwellers, especially Night Elves, but they hate the Blood Elves slightly less than they do everyone else thanks in part to Lady Vashj and Kael'thas Sunstrider working for the same end-game raid boss from Burnign Crusade (Illidan Stormrage), so that may have some standing if they ever become playable.
They actually DO have a main city. It's called Nazjatar, and it's located in the very heart of the Maelstrom.
Racial diversity in races fucks up gender/class. Physical is male-specific and casters are female. They would only have male Warriors and Hunters and female mages and priests.
What kind of racials would they have? Underwater speed, polearm specialization, Frost resistance and an activate Retribution Aura-type effect? Actually, that sounds semi-plausable for their racials...
The fact they have no legs (or feet) means the character modelers would be having Hell Day 24/7/364.9 trying to model pants and boots for naga.
Since they're reptilian, and thereby cold-blooded, they could not enter Winterspring or Dun Morogh without entering torpor.
What would they use for mounts/flying mounts?

Murloc:
They do speak primarily Nerglish (the language of the murloc), but some have learned Common and Orcish. That said, it's a rare occurance, at best, for any Murloc to speak anything other than Nerglish.
Already established what classes they would have access to: Warrior, Hunter, Shaman, Priest, Mage.
Murlocs, as a race, are a fairly splintered group. Perhaps making them another faction of friendly Murlocs would be the best course of action, but regardless, it would be hard to make that work since, as mentioned, Murlocs are real ornery cusses.
The murlocs do not have a known capital. It's true they could probably just make one in a reef or on a beach off the coast of ANY costal-connected zone, but again, how would they survive in desert zones like Thousand Needles, Tanaris, Silithus, the Badlands or Desolace?
Like Naga, they have no known mounts. They just run really fast. This could give them the ability Tauren used to have in the WoW beta, Plainsrunning, where instead of mounting they just run really, really fast, but this doesn't change the fact they can't fly.
Again, like the naga, what kind of racials would they have?

Goblin:
They have an established capital city that would be perfect for a sanctuary: Undermine.
They are multi-lingual, ergo they make a good "mercenary race" that could play for the Alliance OR the Horde. Hell, that would make a good quest for them, choosing to be Alliance or Horde (though PvP server rules would still apply).
Racials could be thought up pretty easy, like a passive boost to Alchemy (similar to Draenei with Jewelcrafting (which makes no sense), Tauren to Herbalism, Blood Elves with Enchanting and Gnomes with Engineering). Hell, I even thought of a name for it: Mix Master.
They have the same animations as male dwarves. Even the female Goblins share their animations with male dwarves (With the exception of the dance. Males have one that isn't the same as dwarf male, women just don't have one.). This would have to change to make them implementable.
What classes would they have? Warrior, rogue, mage and warlock are obvious choices, but how about priest and hunter to round out their ranks?
What would they use for mounts? Ogres (referenced from the Goblin Alchemist hero in Warcraft 3) or Shredders (referenced from the Tinkerer hero in WC3)?
Being able to speak Goblin and Common or Orcish would break any language barriers between Alliance and Horde players. In some cases, it would be good, but in others it would break immersion.

Ogre:
Well-established class choices. Warrior (obvious), Shaman (Kiggler the Crazed), Mage (Krosh Firehand), Priest (Blindeye the Seer), Warlock (Olm the Summoner). Yes, I'm heavily referencing the High King Maulgar fight in choosing their classes, but again, it makes sense that they would be a good outline forwhat classes they get if they were implemented. Plus, these five classes were implemented before HKM was.
They have (very good) established animations for casting, attacking, dancing, talking, et cetera.
What would they use for mounts? Mammoths seem like an obvious choice since they're probably the only thing big enough to move their big, fat asses. But what about flying?
Their size is an issue. There are smaller versions of ogres, like when you use the Gordok Ogre Suit (which isn't much bigger, if at all, than a Tauren), but generally a little scaling down would be nessecary.
They have no female model. It's possible that they reproduce asexually and they would come in a one- or two-headed version, which would be kind of kickass and a decent substitute.
They don't have an established capital city.
They don't have a racial leader.
Their intelligence is questionable. When they're away from the Apexis Crystals they're dumb as a sack of rocks. It's possible they could start at Friendly with Ogri'la and their city can have Apexis Crystals in it or they could be a smarter breed of ogre, but Ogres are a lot smarter than they look.
They don't have a real language. They just speak broken common and Orcish, primarily. This might make them good candidates for the Horde, but if they're going to be a Neutral race it might be tricky since only a few ogres speak full Common.
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Postby Fergie » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:05 am

brotip:

forsaken could speak common in the F+F beta

they removed it due to obvious abuse
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