My Idea (New Class thread #14956)

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Postby lappen » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:32 pm

vergil77 wrote:Blizzard have problems with thinking up some useful engineering items/invensions. Guess they're not that good with all this technology things. Making another 50 technology-like abilities and talents, that are also different than the stuff you get from engineering, wouldn't be an easy task.

Second thing is: how many people would roll a Tinker? Of course, some most certainly would do it and would love that class. But for many other players, an idea of mechanic-hero isn't appealing. Blizzard developers, when designing some content must think of how many people will want to try it. Something like Demon Hunter or Runemaster would most probably be more popular. It's better for them to satisfy - let's say - 60% of players than 30%, with the same effort.

i don't know many who are appealed to the death knight, and see where that crap went!

and engineering isn't all abilities, it's mostly gadgets and goggles and even mounts. the tinker will use bombs, rockets and special robots who perform different tasks. a demon hunter or a runemaster doesn't sound appealing at all, what i've heard of runemaster it just feels like a cheap shaman copy paste and the demon hunter is just... better do something more with the rogue instead.

tinkers aren't there to make a character with engineering. tinker is to make a character that bases his whole fighting system on machines and gnomish/goblin stuff. maybe a robot airplane that drops bombs/shoots at the target (kinda like the DK bat from the green specc) and a suicide robot that rushes (like the boar) to the target and explodes. such stuff. not a class based ONLY on free engineering grenades.
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Postby vergil77 » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:08 pm

lappen wrote:i don't know many who are appealed to the death knight, and see where that crap went!


There are many death knights out there. Majority of players still play their original classes, but DK are popular. And they really aren't that overpowered, especially after the nerfs in 3.2. (i'm not playing a death knight myself, so i guess i'm objective here).

lappen wrote:tinkers aren't there to make a character with engineering. tinker is to make a character that bases his whole fighting system on machines and gnomish/goblin stuff. maybe a robot airplane that drops bombs/shoots at the target (kinda like the DK bat from the green specc) and a suicide robot that rushes (like the boar) to the target and explodes. such stuff. not a class based ONLY on free engineering grenades.


I didn't mean that Tinker and engineering would have the same or very similar abilities. I tried to say that if Blizzard have problems with thinking up some nice gadgets for engineering, making an entire class based on technology would be hard, considering how many talents and abilities they have to design.

lappen wrote:a demon hunter or a runemaster doesn't sound appealing at all, what i've heard of runemaster it just feels like a cheap shaman copy paste and the demon hunter is just... better do something more with the rogue instead.


For you, they doesn't sound appealing. But Blizzard developers must think of majority of players. And what have you heard about runemaster is just players' ideas. Blizzard wouldn't make a class that has same abilities as another one. It would be boring, and bored players = more potential players leaving WoW = less money.

Don't get me wrong, i don't say that Tinker is a bad idea. If they made something like this, i'd certainly try it. I'm just saying that it isn't likely that Blizzard will make such class.
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Postby lappen » Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:15 am

vergil77 wrote:
lappen wrote:i don't know many who are appealed to the death knight, and see where that crap went!


There are many death knights out there. Majority of players still play their original classes, but DK are popular. And they really aren't that overpowered, especially after the nerfs in 3.2. (i'm not playing a death knight myself, so i guess i'm objective here).

lappen wrote:tinkers aren't there to make a character with engineering. tinker is to make a character that bases his whole fighting system on machines and gnomish/goblin stuff. maybe a robot airplane that drops bombs/shoots at the target (kinda like the DK bat from the green specc) and a suicide robot that rushes (like the boar) to the target and explodes. such stuff. not a class based ONLY on free engineering grenades.


I didn't mean that Tinker and engineering would have the same or very similar abilities. I tried to say that if Blizzard have problems with thinking up some nice gadgets for engineering, making an entire class based on technology would be hard, considering how many talents and abilities they have to design.

lappen wrote:a demon hunter or a runemaster doesn't sound appealing at all, what i've heard of runemaster it just feels like a cheap shaman copy paste and the demon hunter is just... better do something more with the rogue instead.


For you, they doesn't sound appealing. But Blizzard developers must think of majority of players. And what have you heard about runemaster is just players' ideas. Blizzard wouldn't make a class that has same abilities as another one. It would be boring, and bored players = more potential players leaving WoW = less money.

Don't get me wrong, i don't say that Tinker is a bad idea. If they made something like this, i'd certainly try it. I'm just saying that it isn't likely that Blizzard will make such class.

if they are able to create a very shaman similar class and make it VERY different from the shaman then they are able to make a tinker class.

and where are you getting the crap that blizz has a hard time thinking up gadgets for engineering? i haven't seen any lack of sweet stuff from engineering. and they CAN really make a tinker class that is WoW'ish and not ultra techy ala year 40 000. there was a tinker in warcraft and that's what blizzard should base the tinker on. bombs, robots and such
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Postby vergil77 » Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:41 am

lappen wrote:if they are able to create a very shaman similar class and make it VERY different from the shaman then they are able to make a tinker class.


As i said before, all that you heard about runemaster hero class is only players' ideas. We don't know what hero class (if any) will be introduced in the third expansion, and if it will be Runemaster, we don't know what spells he will use.

lappen wrote:and where are you getting the crap that blizz has a hard time thinking up gadgets for engineering? i haven't seen any lack of sweet stuff from engineering. and they CAN really make a tinker class that is WoW'ish and not ultra techy ala year 40 000. there was a tinker in warcraft and that's what blizzard should base the tinker on. bombs, robots and such


Engineering is considered the worst of the professions. That means Blizzard either don't know what to give them to buff them a little, or don't have time to do so.

As to the Tinker in WC3, he had four abilities, while WoW classes have what, 40-50 abilities? Not to mention around 90 talents. Not to mention the ones you'll get in the new expansion.
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Postby lappen » Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:15 am

vergil77 wrote:
lappen wrote:if they are able to create a very shaman similar class and make it VERY different from the shaman then they are able to make a tinker class.


As i said before, all that you heard about runemaster hero class is only players' ideas. We don't know what hero class (if any) will be introduced in the third expansion, and if it will be Runemaster, we don't know what spells he will use.

lappen wrote:and where are you getting the crap that blizz has a hard time thinking up gadgets for engineering? i haven't seen any lack of sweet stuff from engineering. and they CAN really make a tinker class that is WoW'ish and not ultra techy ala year 40 000. there was a tinker in warcraft and that's what blizzard should base the tinker on. bombs, robots and such


Engineering is considered the worst of the professions. That means Blizzard either don't know what to give them to buff them a little, or don't have time to do so.

As to the Tinker in WC3, he had four abilities, while WoW classes have what, 40-50 abilities? Not to mention around 90 talents. Not to mention the ones you'll get in the new expansion.

are you serious? are you basing everything of your own opinions? engineering ain't the worst proffesions, it's one of the best! just cause poor dudes can't afford making grenades doesn't make it crappy. engineering has the best gadgets and really fun stuff to do rather than other proffesions that just gives you some epics that you can easily replace 30 min in a raid or grinding BG a lil
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Postby vergil77 » Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:48 am

I said that engineering is considered the worst profession, not that i consider it. I've never been engineering before, therefor i myself don't have any opinion about that at all. I based my statement on many comments about how useless it became in WotLK.

Anyway, let's say that problem of diverse abilities and talents doesn't exist. Let's say that Blizzard is able to create perfect Tinker hero class, perfectly balanced, with ability to tank etc. Still, i think that they would reject that idea. They must be sure that many players will like it. There are many players who like engineering and such technology stuff, but they're still minority. Many players dislike the technology in universe of Warcraft at all. Now, let's take Demon Hunter for example. He would most probably make as big success as Death Knights - vast majority of players will try it out, while many of them will level up to 90 and play it from time to time, and some of them will even abandon their current main for the new hero class. More players satisfied = more money, and more money = happy Blizzard.

Again, i DO NOT say that Tinker hero class idea is bad. I just think that (IMO) it isn't likely to be released.
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Postby lappen » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:19 am

vergil77 wrote:I said that engineering is considered the worst profession, not that i consider it. I've never been engineering before, therefor i myself don't have any opinion about that at all. I based my statement on many comments about how useless it became in WotLK.

Anyway, let's say that problem of diverse abilities and talents doesn't exist. Let's say that Blizzard is able to create perfect Tinker hero class, perfectly balanced, with ability to tank etc. Still, i think that they would reject that idea. They must be sure that many players will like it. There are many players who like engineering and such technology stuff, but they're still minority. Many players dislike the technology in universe of Warcraft at all. Now, let's take Demon Hunter for example. He would most probably make as big success as Death Knights - vast majority of players will try it out, while many of them will level up to 90 and play it from time to time, and some of them will even abandon their current main for the new hero class. More players satisfied = more money, and more money = happy Blizzard.

Again, i DO NOT say that Tinker hero class idea is bad. I just think that (IMO) it isn't likely to be released.

i haven't heard a single complaint about engineering! it is and have always been a freaking awesome profession.

and for the demon hunter seeing the abilities they have makes it feel like a warlock with dual wielding. check illidan in WC3 for example, all his spells except dodge are warlock spells. and it seems that the demon hunters in wow (apprentices) seem just to be warlocks with dual wielding.

and where did you get that only a minority would like the tinker? it's far more unique and playable and for the most customizable to make it a class of it's own than say, runemaster and demon hunter.

just cause some dudes on the forum whines cause there's rifles in the game doesn't make them the majority of WoW. tinker would be a very unique class.
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Postby vergil77 » Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:24 am

lappen wrote:and for the demon hunter seeing the abilities they have makes it feel like a warlock with dual wielding. check illidan in WC3 for example, all his spells except dodge are warlock spells. and it seems that the demon hunters in wow (apprentices) seem just to be warlocks with dual wielding.


First, warlocks do not have mana burn, it's priests' ability. Second, Warcraft 3 and WoW are two completly different games. You cannot base a class that has 30-40 or so spells and nearly 100 talents on a hero from strategy game that has four abilities. If warlock have two abilities of demon hunter from WC3, it doesn't make him a demon hunter that cannot melee. It doesn't mean that Demon Hunter will be dual wielding warlock either. His transformation could work in different way than warlock's. Same thing was with warlock's and death knight's death coils.

Also, demon hunter and runemaster were only examples. There are many more possibilities like Blademaster, Spell Breaker, Warden.

lappen wrote:and where did you get that only a minority would like the tinker? it's far more unique and playable and for the most customizable to make it a class of it's own than say, runemaster and demon hunter.


This is only my assumption, i do not say "We will never see Tinkers. Period". I just doubt that Blizzard would make such class. And why do you think that Tinker would be far more unique and customizable than Demon Hunter or Runemaster if you don't know what abilities they have?

EDIT: Actually, nevermind all that i wrote, this is getting to nowhere. I won't convince you, and neither you will convince me. We both have some assumptions and let's leave it that way. Blizzcon is tommorow, so we won't have to wait much time till we'll know about the new hero class (if there will be any).
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Postby lappen » Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:16 pm

vergil77 wrote:
lappen wrote:and for the demon hunter seeing the abilities they have makes it feel like a warlock with dual wielding. check illidan in WC3 for example, all his spells except dodge are warlock spells. and it seems that the demon hunters in wow (apprentices) seem just to be warlocks with dual wielding.


First, warlocks do not have mana burn, it's priests' ability. Second, Warcraft 3 and WoW are two completly different games. You cannot base a class that has 30-40 or so spells and nearly 100 talents on a hero from strategy game that has four abilities. If warlock have two abilities of demon hunter from WC3, it doesn't make him a demon hunter that cannot melee. It doesn't mean that Demon Hunter will be dual wielding warlock either. His transformation could work in different way than warlock's. Same thing was with warlock's and death knight's death coils.

Also, demon hunter and runemaster were only examples. There are many more possibilities like Blademaster, Spell Breaker, Warden.

lappen wrote:and where did you get that only a minority would like the tinker? it's far more unique and playable and for the most customizable to make it a class of it's own than say, runemaster and demon hunter.


This is only my assumption, i do not say "We will never see Tinkers. Period". I just doubt that Blizzard would make such class. And why do you think that Tinker would be far more unique and customizable than Demon Hunter or Runemaster if you don't know what abilities they have?

EDIT: Actually, nevermind all that i wrote, this is getting to nowhere. I won't convince you, and neither you will convince me. We both have some assumptions and let's leave it that way. Blizzcon is tommorow, so we won't have to wait much time till we'll know about the new hero class (if there will be any).

1. i base shit off warcraft 3 cause wow's freaking based on warcraft. a demon hunter in wow will be like a demon hunter in warcraft, just more spells. and all those spells looks like a warlocks. also blademaster would be horrible cause it's just an arms warrior in leader pants.
spell breaker would be horrible cause, they are just a spell breaker! what would you bring him to raids for? spell breaking shit? no dps at all?
a warden would also be horrible as it's just a warrior. simply a warrior. yeah warden has blink but who cares and why would you even be able to play warden? you wouldn't be able to raid or anything cause you have to guard prisoners.

"This is only my assumption, i do not say "We will never see Tinkers. Period". I just doubt that Blizzard would make such class. And why do you think that Tinker would be far more unique and customizable than Demon Hunter or Runemaster if you don't know what abilities they have?"

1. and my assumption is that tinkers is a great idea for a new class. I just doubt that you know THAT many people who would hate it.

2. and why do YOU think the tinker wouldn't be a incredibly unique and customizable class than all the other options if you don't know what abilities they have?

you are questioning me stuff that i can just answer by throwing them back at you, you're giving just as much questions as i am.

tinker would be a really good class to add if goblins will be the new race as there will now be a horde AND an alliance race who is deep into technology. meanwhile there's no real reason to bring up runemaster, spellwaster, demon whiner and the warden?
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Postby vergil77 » Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:36 pm

World of Warcraft and Warcraft 3 are two different games, they're not even in the same type. Yet you think that every class in WoW that has its equivalent in WC3 is based on it, which is wrong. They only share one or two abilities. Take shamans for example. In Warcraft 3 they didn't have a big opportunity to deal damage. Also, they did not heal. In WoW however, they they can both deal damage and heal. Of course, they have all three spells that WC3 shamans had, but all of them are significantly altered. Now, name one reason for which WoW versions of - let's say - Demon Hunter or Spell Breaker should be exactly the same as in WC3 but with more abilities?

I just doubt that you know THAT many people who would hate it.


I just think that it wouldn't be as popular as Demon Hunter, Runemaster, or whatever (which doesn't mean that i wouldn't like it. I mean WoW players in general). That is my opinion and i already pointed out why it is. Period, i don't have anything else to say in this case, and i won't change it until i see Tinker hero class in game that is rolled by a vast majority of players.

and why do YOU think the tinker wouldn't be a incredibly unique and customizable class than all the other options if you don't know what abilities they have?


Please, reread my post, because i've never said that Tinker wouldn't be as unique and customizable class as any other class.

Before answering me, consider that:

1. I DO NOT SAY THAT IDEA OF TINKER BEING NEW HERO CLASS IS BAD, NOR DO I THINK THAT DEMON HUNTER/RUNEMASTER/ETC. WOULD BE BETTER. So please, stop pointing out how it is a great idea and how it is better than any other class idea.
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Postby Barke » Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:05 pm

I would make one,
I just LOVE to tinker
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Postby Noodles » Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:31 am

WoW is based on warcraft-.- shaman is in warcraft and WoW, warden is the warcraft rogue (yes, rogues actually had blink in the early betas, they also got all wardens spells) that human mage guy got mage spells, like water elemental and blizzard, Thrall a shaman along with Drek'Thar, im sure that if warcraft 1 never came upon the world, there wouldnt be a WoW, oh well this small sentence was kinda just to say that WoW is based on warcraft O_o

Still, Tinker Hero Class sounds like a MUCH better idea then warden (rogue) blademaster (warrior) or spell breaker (mage) also Rune Master doesnt sound too good either, i NEVER EVER heard the community complain about engineering, only other professions, Tinker is of course something the community could like.

And ye, demon hunter is just a mage/warlock/rogue mix
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Postby lappen » Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:14 am

vergil77 wrote:World of Warcraft and Warcraft 3 are two different games, they're not even in the same type. Yet you think that every class in WoW that has its equivalent in WC3 is based on it, which is wrong. They only share one or two abilities. Take shamans for example. In Warcraft 3 they didn't have a big opportunity to deal damage. Also, they did not heal. In WoW however, they they can both deal damage and heal. Of course, they have all three spells that WC3 shamans had, but all of them are significantly altered. Now, name one reason for which WoW versions of - let's say - Demon Hunter or Spell Breaker should be exactly the same as in WC3 but with more abilities?

I just doubt that you know THAT many people who would hate it.


I just think that it wouldn't be as popular as Demon Hunter, Runemaster, or whatever (which doesn't mean that i wouldn't like it. I mean WoW players in general). That is my opinion and i already pointed out why it is. Period, i don't have anything else to say in this case, and i won't change it until i see Tinker hero class in game that is rolled by a vast majority of players.

and why do YOU think the tinker wouldn't be a incredibly unique and customizable class than all the other options if you don't know what abilities they have?


Please, reread my post, because i've never said that Tinker wouldn't be as unique and customizable class as any other class.

Before answering me, consider that:

1. I DO NOT SAY THAT IDEA OF TINKER BEING NEW HERO CLASS IS BAD, NOR DO I THINK THAT DEMON HUNTER/RUNEMASTER/ETC. WOULD BE BETTER. So please, stop pointing out how it is a great idea and how it is better than any other class idea.

THEN WHY THE HELL ARE YOU ARGUING WITH ME?!

arguing without disagreeing with the argue-opponent is just as useless as all of the classes you mentioned together, quite alot.

there's no problem with the tinker class and it would be great lorewise if blizz decides to add a second tech-heavy race and possibly add some more lore to the gnomes.

also the dwarves can be tinkers to as they are also very interested in techy things, especially big guns and airplanes.
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Postby vergil77 » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:01 am

Noodles wrote:WoW is based on warcraft-.- shaman is in warcraft and WoW, warden is the warcraft rogue (yes, rogues actually had blink in the early betas, they also got all wardens spells) that human mage guy got mage spells, like water elemental and blizzard, Thrall a shaman along with Drek'Thar, im sure that if warcraft 1 never came upon the world, there wouldnt be a WoW, oh well this small sentence was kinda just to say that WoW is based on warcraft O_o

I was refering to gameplay, not the lore. WoW is not based on Warcraft in the terms of gameplay. WoW shaman is not based on a shaman from Warcraft 3. Their roles don't even come close to each other. There are some slight similarities between spells. That's all. Same with mages.

Noodles wrote:i NEVER EVER heard the community complain about engineering, only other professions


But i did, and quite a lot. I don't know how much of it is true.

Noodles wrote:And ye, demon hunter is just a mage/warlock/rogue mix


So what? Death knight is basically a warlock/warrior mix, yet he's very different from both of them.

lappen wrote:THEN WHY THE HELL ARE YOU ARGUING WITH ME?!

arguing without disagreeing with the argue-opponent is just as useless as all of the classes you mentioned together, quite alot.


You were missing my point all the time. And my point is that Blizzard would not release Tinker class. How many times more should i repeat it?

If your point is "Tinker is the best idea and everything else sucks, period", then this discussion is pretty pointless anyway.
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Postby Dragonas » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:58 am

Is this arguement seriously happening? We'll find out soon... blizzcon... yea um... hmmm... Lappen take a chill pill man. I see where both of you guys are coming from, no need to get angry about it. You both have your opinions. And Vergil wasn't (WAS NOT) disagreeing with you. He was placing his two copper in the thread and you're getting upset about it. hell who knows, maybe they won't have a new hero class at all? So let's relax, and get happy, and find out from Blizzcon, what exactly is going to happen.
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