Patch 2.4 = Shamans Become The Worst Class In The Game

Discuss anything relating to World of Warcraft

Are shamans getting graduallly killed by every new patch?

Yes.
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44%
No.
20
56%
 
Total votes : 36

Patch 2.4 = Shamans Become The Worst Class In The Game

Postby The Great JT » Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:51 am

Shamans are being laughed at as the most powerless class in the game. Sure, Chain Heal makes us awesome healers, but what about the other two specs in the game: Elemental and Enhancement?

Well, if you caught Oblivious Film's "Inside World Of Warcraft", you would see that there is NO gear in the game for Enhancement Shamans. And really, there isn't. Enhancement Shamans are synonymous with Survival-spec Hunters with their heads cut off or rogues with their arms surgically amputated. With the shaman's lack of melee skills, no gear that's tailored specifically to Enhancement shamans, and laughability as viable damage-dolers forced to rely on Lightning Shield, Stormstrike and Shocks until they run out of mana, Enhancement has gone from being the leveling spec to the laughing spec.

And of course, there's Elemental Combat. Elemental Shamans are supposed to do burst damage similar to that of Warlocks spec'd in Destruction, Balance-spec Druids or Mages in general, but while Warlocks use Shadow magic and Mages have Arcane, Fire and Frost, Shamans and Druids fill in the last void in that little hole: Nature damage. Now apparently, after getting the late memo that about 65% of enemies have some form of resistance to Nature damage, 5v5 shamans in the Arena were doing too much damage. And Blizzard has decided to, once again, nerf Elemental-spec shamans in general. Shamans are the class least-seen in 2v2 and 3v3 arenas, I should mention (I myself have yet to see one). Not convinced? Here's a few of the patch 2.4 notes regarding shamans.

Lightning Bolt: Spell Coefficient reduced by $ (Lightning Bolt is our primary damage source. We are now completely screwed in the burst damage department, which was already laughable.)
Call of Thunder: (Rank 5) now gives 5% critical strike chance. (Down from 6%, while Mace Specialization rogues get to keep their 6%.)
Earth Shield: Mana cost reduced roughly in half, and charges reduced from 10 to 6. (Once again, mana efficiency means the spell now has to suck.)
Elemental Focus: This buff will no longer be removed when Shamanistic Focus is triggered. (The two were practically useless together, but this is clearly a restoration nerf.)
Ghost Wolf: Cast time reduced to 2 seconds, down from 3. (Yet there will still be a minimum 1-second cast time, because Blizz is changing the Improved cast time from -1 second/-2 seconds to -.5 seconds/-1 second, it's still a magic effect, doesn't remove snares or anything the Druid Travel Form can do.)
Healing Grace: This talent now reduces the chance your spells will be dispelled by 10/20/30%. The resistance to being dispelled modifier from this talent now applies correctly to Water Breathing. (Water breathing got used scarcely ever, and it NEVER got used in PvP, so why the hell should this be included?)
Nature’s Swiftness and Elemental Mastery now share a 10 second cooldown. (They did this so that it'd be harder on Shaman mana, which is already very tight by outrageous mana costs.)
Rockbiter Weapon: Tooltip and error messages have been adjusted slightly. (Again, stupid. After you get Windfury Weapon, Rockbiter, Flametounge and Frostband Weapon go out the window.)
Stormstrike has a new icon. (Just trying to distract us with a pretty new icon.)
Totem timer icons will now show up under your player portrait when you cast totem spells. Right-clicking a totem timer icon will destroy that totem. (Oh wow, I've got something I shoulda had all along!)
Tremor Totem and Poison Cleansing Totem now pulses every 3 seconds, down from 4 and 5, respectively. (Tremor Totem's the only one that really gets used, outside of fighting a rogue boss in PvE like Moroes or in PvP.)
Fire Nova Totem will no longer sometimes detonate without doing any damage. (You mean like it should have all along?)

You been paying attention? Let me put it in perspective: shamans are getting driven into the ground by Blizzard's rampaging nerfs and rampant useless buffs. The shaman class is in dire need of a buff, and clearly Blizzard isn't gonna do anything about it. Playing a Shaman in PvE, PvP or general is already laughable with a lack of crowd control and the fact we're pretty much raped by every other class in the game. Taking into account that we're also getting our Lightning Bolt damage, our number-one source of DPS, dulled, shamans are really getting the shit kicked out of them by the Development team. Apparently, we have been doing enough damage to be good at 5v5 Arena, but not enough damage to survive a raid that prefers mages, warlocks, druids, rogues and hunters, a 2v2 or 3v3 arena group, battlegrounds or any other aspect of PvE.

I think shamans are really dying as a class in World of Warcraft. What are your thoughts?
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Postby Vytamindi » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:13 am

Well... crap.

I've been having this discussion with my friends and guildies as we are about to take on Kara (we all leveled together) about what spec would be best for me to take to help us out. I am also wanting to choose my main "end game spec" so I can become properly geared as well.

I am smashy smashy (enhancement) speced and I do pretty well on the damage charts. As long as you keep watershield up, going oom is less of a problem. I have toyed going elemental because of the nasty AoE most bosses have nowadays. But what guild doesn't have mages and warlocks? Plus, these spells take forever to occur. I have decided that healing would be best for me, but I am discouraged because I can never be main healing. Plus we have some great preists in our guild too.

So it's as if damned if I do, damned if I don't. I do appreciate my experience as a shaman because now I know how three main classes (DPS, casting, healing) work, but I feel a little silly that this is my main because I can do them all, but none can be done as well as a class devoted to one of the three.

Stuck in a support role,
Vyta

P.S. I heard we may get CC in the next expansion. Not sure from where, though.
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Postby The Great JT » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:25 am

Vytamindi wrote:P.S. I heard we may get CC in the next expansion. Not sure from where, though.

The day that happens is the day Blizzard fixes shamans in general.
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Postby FenixStryk » Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:33 pm

Quote: "Nature’s Swiftness and Elemental Mastery now share a 10 second cooldown."

EDIT: I want to make this less QQ'y, and more informative, so I'm rewriting this. Here goes.

First, Call of Thunder gets nerfed to 5% (which isn't big) despite a Rogue's Mace Spec remaining at 6%, and now our EM+NS+CL combo is nerfed, which is the ONLY reason (Besides Bloodlust/Heroism) that Shamans are chosen for 5v5... while PoM+Combustion+Pyro is NOT nerfed.

What is with this hypocrisy that always ends up with Shamans getting nerfed for one reason, while another, similar class is not nerfed despite them having the same ability? This is completely uncalled for.
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Postby Narya » Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:43 pm

i don't pvp much with my shaman, so i can't really comment on that.

as for pve, i play solely as resto shaman, always have been, so i can't comment on the other 2 specs either.

on pve, resto shamans are fine currently. i don't think we are going away really. there are a lot of benefits in having multiple shamans in a raid, the buffs we provide our respectively parties are enough of a reason to bring at least 1 of each spec type. and of course there's heroism.

just think about this one, every time there is a change to the class they play, doesn't matter what kind of change, people called them nerfs, so whatever. i choose to be a resto shaman, and i can keep up with any other healing class in raids, before and after the "countless" nerfs that i've been reading in the forums.
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Postby The Great JT » Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:48 pm

Narya wrote:i don't pvp much with my shaman, so i can't really comment on that.

as for pve, i play solely as resto shaman, always have been, so i can't comment on the other 2 specs either.

on pve, resto shamans are fine currently. i don't think we are going away really. there are a lot of benefits in having multiple shamans in a raid, the buffs we provide our respectively parties are enough of a reason to bring at least 1 of each spec type. and of course there's heroism.

just think about this one, every time there is a change to the class they play, doesn't matter what kind of change, people called them nerfs, so whatever. i choose to be a resto shaman, and i can keep up with any other healing class in raids, before and after the "countless" nerfs that i've been reading in the forums.

Elemental = Sustained DPS.

Elemental Mastery is the Shaman equivalent of Presence of Mind (Mage talent that makes next mage spell instant cast, often teamed with Pyroblast). It really made for great DPS. Now Blizz threw on a useless 10 second cooldown.
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Postby Tankorr » Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:53 pm

A few things:

-MMO Champion talked about the Lightning Bolt coefficient being nerfed in a rumor post. I do not believe that has been worked into the newest official PTR patch notes as yet (I could be mistaken).

-Can you really confirm that the talent points for Improved Ghost Wolf have been changed so that it's still 1sec fully talented? I didn't hear any talk on this.

-EM/NS nerf was a nerf to instantaneous burst damage, not mana efficiency. Nothing stops you from doing one after the other. A powered up Shaman could deliver an approximate 5k damage payload from an instant CL crit followed up by an ES - all within less than a second. I could see why they would not want us to do this. But really, there are more pressing issues rather than this nerf, which, if corrected, would not make it as bad. EM doesn't really factor into "sustained DPS". It's just a tool that can be useful situationally in PvP (when an enemy is getting trained), or mindlessly pressed every three minutes during PvE encounters.

PvE-wise, we're fine (except for the fact that I feel Elemental Shamans should provide more differentiable buffs compared to the other specs - something similar in concept to Unleashed Rage that requires the Shaman to DPS the mob in order to provide the buff). So the following will focus on PvP.

As it stands, due to the way the Shaman class functions, we are heavily reliant on our allies to succeed. Moreover, those allies must be specific classes (or at least perform specific functions), which restricts the "splashability" of using a Shaman in an arena group. Given our weaknesses, we generally need a Paladin in our group (for BoP/BoF and Conc Aura), a Priest (Pain Supp) and some form of Mage/Warlock/Druid to CC would-be attackers. Without these, we generally die rather fast, and usually have trouble getting casts off (due to either pushback or flat out interrupt/silence).

Restoration is weak due to, once again, the ease of being shut down and the lack of instant heals/damage shields. For Elemental, it's primarily the ease of being shut down. Enhancement overcomes some weaknesses that the caster specs face, but has issues with creating or closing distances.

Hopefully we will see some more changes within the test builds that will help Shamans (or at least, hinder the other classes to even the playing field).
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Postby FenixStryk » Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:57 pm

Narya wrote:i don't pvp much with my shaman, so i can't really comment on that.
I suppose it's only natural to not see why Shamans are upset then.

Shamans are in no way disappointed with their performance in PvE. In fact, we're one of the better set classes in that regard. Our problems are rooted solely in the PvP department.

No CC. No anti-CC. Totem system is gimped. Almost no insta-casts (insta-heal every 3 minutes if we didn't use EM+NS+CL, and three weak, mana inefficient Shocks)... none of these are major setbacks in PvE, but for PvP (notably in Arenas) they are the deciding factors.

We cannot in any way move and heal at the same time, and we have no protection against incoming Focus Fire. This puts us below Priests and Druids since they can move and heal at the same time, and also below Paladins, which have plate, some CC, and a bubble that is much harder to remove.

As for damage, the spec that is best at moving and attacking at the same time (Enhancement) has only three skills that can be used to close the gap, and all three do not stun the opponent; they simply make them move slower, or in the case of Ghost Wolf, make us move faster. We're like Druids, except our travel form takes 3 (will be 2) seconds to cast AND can be dispelled, and our Entangling Roots / Cyclone are much less effective.

In terms of Elemental, we cannot move and attack at the same time unless we rely solely on Shocks and Nature's Swiftness. Shocks, sadly, are also on a 6 second cooldown, are relatively weak compared to our LBs, and cost a lot of mana. Simply, we give up way too much if we want to maintain mobility as Elemental, so we don't.

yes, we were the kings of PvP, but things have changed. BC came out, and Resilience was introduced.

When BC came out, WoW moved away from Burst damage, and closer to maintaining mobility/controlling an enemy's mobility. This is the main reason why Rogues and Warlocks are great in PvP, while Shamans, which rely solely on burst, are no longer the kings.

Yet Shamans (which make up less than 7% of the player base, and an even smaller % of Arena team members) see nerf, after nerf, after nerf. Elemental is the PvP spec, and it is just being kicked in the jewels each patch like it's all the rage. It's totally uncool, and will probably be the reason I finally quit (and go to Age of Conan).

I rolled a Shaman hoping that PvP would be fun for me, and now I'm pigeon-holed into raiding, which I strongly dislike. It's really, really depressing.
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Postby Tankorr » Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:15 pm

The thing the developers are seeing is that if you group us with the right classes, Elemental can be extremely strong. Smart people know not to allow an Elemental Shaman to freely cast to his/her heart's content in the background. You have to either cc, push back, silence/interrupt, or outright kill the Shaman asap. Unfortunately, many people don't use the "ideal" setup. Thus, it seems unfair.

Usually I am targeted quickly by enemies in arena. The times when I completely devastate an entire team are when people neglect me.
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Postby Evilducks » Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:46 pm

From a PvE perspective, we bring both an enhance and elemental shaman to every fight. They are both excellent at their job and I think our melee group would lynch our raid leader if we took away their totem twisting gods.
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Postby Gombol » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:45 pm

"patch 2.4 = shamans are nerfed"

first of all

good

second

2.4 = bliz fuc*s up the game even more with s4 and badge gear that beats black temple loot!

2.3 bought along the badge gear whitch beat kara and ZA whitch beat kara gear as well

looks to me like bliz is bored of wow and cant be arsed to work on it anymore so they take complaints and accually take them to a new level and DO THEM and TAKE IT OVER THE TOP!

once diablo 3 comes out, im going straight to that, my freinds told me a bit about what its gunna be like and shes got me into it.

call me a "noob" or w.e., but its what me and many people i know feel.
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Postby ShadowHunter » Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:26 am

I thought shamans used to be op before tbc O.o who the hell said they suck now
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Postby lib3rator » Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:28 am

wtb threat reduction talent for shamans
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Postby Juonryu » Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:02 am

lib3rator wrote:wtb threat reduction talent for shamans


maybe a spell like "astral form"? could be beneficial for pvp too
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Postby The Great JT » Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:41 am

lib3rator wrote:wtb threat reduction talent for shamans

And a stun/fear/charm resistance talent, among other things (I can't remember any of them right now, I just woke up about 10 minutes ago).
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