Patch 2.4 = Shamans Become The Worst Class In The Game

Discuss anything relating to World of Warcraft

Are shamans getting graduallly killed by every new patch?

Yes.
16
44%
No.
20
56%
 
Total votes : 36

Postby Narya » Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:11 pm

Evilducks wrote:You're a support class for the most part and provide some amazing support.

Heroism/Bloodlust. Nuff said.

Evilducks wrote:The moment you start comparing yourself one on one to a different class is the moment I stop listening to your argument. You're telling me different classes have different abilities and you want to only highlight the parts that you're deficient in? How terrible for you that you aren't this other class you think is so much better. Try rolling that class and let me know what you think about it.

That is so true, plus, it doesn't matter what the patch note says, the class people are playing are always "nerfed" and all other classes they are not playing are "OP/buffed". Its quite interesting watching this happen every friggin patch. Every class and every spec within each class is made to be different, don't like it? play something else imo. Or if you can find a better game :roll: :roll: :roll: go play that!
Narya <Dark Legacy>
Image
User avatar
Narya
Moderator
 
Posts: 652
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:03 am
Location: Thelsamar, Loch Modan

Postby Narya » Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:12 pm

Krom wrote:Hunters should get death touch on every shot. Clearly Blizzard hates hunters and constantly fucks them because we don't get this ability. <Insert whiny tears here>


i dunno...some hunters that can shoot you for 3-4K is pretty close to this death touch imo >.>
Narya <Dark Legacy>
Image
User avatar
Narya
Moderator
 
Posts: 652
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:03 am
Location: Thelsamar, Loch Modan

Postby Tankorr » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:57 am

As I mentioned before, my issue was that you have to stack the group just right in order to have a right place for Shamans. Shamans depend on more than one other class to watch their backs (Paladin for BoP/BoF/Conc Aura, Priests for PW:S, dispels, Mages/Rogues/Warlocks/Druids for CC'ing would-be assailants, etc). This is the primary reason why we aren't as strong in 2v2 and 3v3, because our weaknesses can't be covered in a satisfactory manner, and the value of our support is much less with 1-2 other people compared to 4.
User avatar
Tankorr
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:09 am

Postby Evilducks » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:19 am

Alright, if we're going down this road let me make my 'oh my god priests are terrible' whine.

Paladins are so much better than priests it's not even funny! Everything we can do they can do better!

We have PW:S they have bubble AND BoP. One leaves you completely immune to physical dps the other leaves you immune to everything and can only be dispeled by mass dispel.

Their clense can remove nearly every debuff in the game and costs less than our dispel which only removes magic.

Their heals are infinitely more mana efficient than ours.

They have amazing group buffs between blessings and auras. All we have is dispel fodder for the most part and Pain suppression which is really a pathetic version of bop.

They wear plate and can take a beating forever compared to our cloth.

Paladins are just better than us in every way!!! Why would anybody bring a priest when they can have all of that?!?!?!?!?!!!!!! QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQqqqqqqqqqqq.





These were all common arguments on the priest forum for a long time (and probably still are). The problem is it's cherry picking info and completely ignoring the benefits there are to having a priest. I conveniently leave out that our dispel is offensive as well, I leave out power infusion, our HoTs, PoM, Mana Burn etc.


As far as needing correct groups. For the most part this is true for everybody in 2v2 or 3v3. Certain classes just mix better than others. This is true even in 25 and 40 man raids where group make up is hugely important. If you want to compete in a highly competitive competition you need to min max as best as you can. You are not going to be able to pick up 4 other random people and excel, it never has and never will work that way. Some specs will work better for arenas than others, hell, priests only have one viable roll and one viable spec for arenas. The game was always designed with larger group content in mind, they should have never made 2v2, 3v3 is pushing it. 5v5 allows for the split rolls to really shine.
________
List of ford platforms
Last edited by Evilducks on Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Evilducks
 
Posts: 302
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:01 pm

Postby Krom » Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:54 am

Narya wrote:i dunno...some hunters that can shoot you for 3-4K is pretty close to this death touch imo >.>

Maybe if you're only level 60 with 4k hp! And for reference my biggest crit ever was on a level 61 mage in greens in Hellfire. I crit him for 4628 with an aimed shot (he died).

Evilducks wrote:... hell, priests only have one viable roll and one viable spec for arenas.

I kinda disagree with this. While maybe not a 2200+ spec in many cases, I've seen some pretty successful shadow priest/other teams.

That being said, Disc priests suck. I generally really enjoy the taste of dying clothies to my overgeared physical attacks, but priests... ugh, f u.

Ninja Edit: I don't really PvP too much anymore. Me and a lolsmite priest did some 2v2 for a while and it was kind of fun, but I just can't seem to get into it like I once did.
User avatar
Krom
Moderator
 
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:53 pm

Postby Evilducks » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:37 pm

Almost all specs can find some use in arenas (except maybe prot warriors) and sometimes excel in certain groups against other specific groups. Shadow priests work well on drain teams as a 3rd dps'er. But they're rarely going to be in top tier unless they're exceptional players on a well played team and even then they could probably do even better with a different class type. The real question will be how do the percentages stack up on the arena only realm where you're not stuck with your class and the gear you have earned.


Really a lot of classes only have 1 or maybe 2 viable specs in arenas so it kinda irritates me to see hybrids start bitching that their particular spec doesn't work. Warriors are only MS in arenas, locks are pretty much only SL/SL. Mages use to only be frost. The list goes on, Hell, I have to respec from raid healing to arena healing to go into arenas... how sad is that?
________
Trichome
Last edited by Evilducks on Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Evilducks
 
Posts: 302
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:01 pm

Postby Krom » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:37 pm

FenixStryk wrote:Lots of stuff...

The reason I really dislike these kinds of broad spectrum whines has a little to do with Evilducks' reply, but it also has alot to do with immature posting.

Now immediately you're thinking "wow, what a self-righteous asshole! He doesn't know my situation or class at all!"

The reason I say this is that back in 2005 I was making posts exactly like yours. Whining, bitching and moaning about the bad things about my class (Paladin) and not looking at the good things or really looking at the game as a whole, how my class fits into it, or realizing the game is meant to be played by several people cooperatively and I can't solo my way through everything.

So, whenever I see a post like this anywhere it drives me nuts because I've seen this all before. It, in the long term, will get you (personally) no where and make you extremely frustrated with the class you are playing until you quit or re-roll an alt and switch to it.

There really is no perfect class, and many classes are better at one aspect of the game or the other. The real key is to find what you enjoy about your class and focus on that. If you can't do that, stop playing or find a different class before you make yourself so angry about it. In the long run, it's about getting enjoyment out of this game. If you aren't, change it up.

That's my two cents.


PS: I fucking hated Paladins in the last 4-5 months that I played one. I mean, FUCKING HATED. All caps! In switching to warrior it was like a breath of fresh air. I started really enjoying the game again. At first it was because it was a different class, but after a while it really came down to enjoying the new role a hell of a lot more (DPS with some offtanking).

With TBC I focused primarily on tanking and loved it as well. I'll probably go with a tanking class in any future MMO's. I switched to my hunter due to some personality conflicts and getting disenfrachised with my guild (at the time)'s policies not really because I disliked warrior. Now I just try to top DM's without fucking up and I just don't get so involved in the "OMG UR CLAZZ F U" battles that rage so often and try to enjoy whatever portion of the game is currently appealing to me (on top of raiding, which has always appealed to me).
User avatar
Krom
Moderator
 
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:53 pm

Postby The Great JT » Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:55 am

Honestly, shamans and priests are really getting shafted.

Shamans get:
No crowd control
Rampant nerfs

Priests get:
A 1-second decrease in the Mana Burn cast time and half its efficiency gone (Improved now puts it where it is now)
The clothie "Armor buff" that has to be re-applied after 20 hits, and since priests can't take a hit to begin with, we get killed in 3 shots with it on. Even WITH the damage decrease from Shadowform.
Image

The Punchmaster. Do Not Question Him.
User avatar
The Great JT
 
Posts: 1667
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:00 pm
Location: Orgrimmar

Postby Tankorr » Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:17 am

Evilducks wrote:Really a lot of classes only have 1 or maybe 2 viable specs in arenas so it kinda irritates me to see hybrids start bitching that their particular spec doesn't work. Warriors are only MS in arenas, locks are pretty much only SL/SL. Mages use to only be frost. The list goes on, Hell, I have to respec from raid healing to arena healing to go into arenas... how sad is that?


The "raid to arena and back again" respec is pretty much the case for all raiders who also PvP across all classes. The difference in hybrids' complaints compared to that of a Warrior, Mage, Hunter, Rogue, or Warlock is that the different hybrid trees are for completely different roles, whereas with the above mentioned classes (save Warriors), it's just a variation of the same role. So for a Druid who is most familiar with Feral Combat, choosing to use a viable Arena spec means shifting into doing something with which he/she is not familiar. That's the root of the complaint.
User avatar
Tankorr
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:09 am

Postby Gombol » Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:25 am

The Great JT wrote:Priests get:

The clothie "Armor buff" that has to be re-applied after 20 hits, and since priests can't take a hit to begin with, we get killed in 3 shots with it on. Even WITH the damage decrease from Shadowform.


true dat.
The Great JT wrote:A 1-second decrease in the Mana Burn cast time and half its efficiency gone (Improved now puts it where it is now)



imo, useless spell in PVP unless your specced for imp, 3 second + someone hitting you = 6 second.
User avatar
Gombol
 
Posts: 973
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:38 am

Postby Abazoe » Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:37 am

Mana burn may be useless in bgs, but in arena with the right partner it can be a game turner. With a rogue/priest team (mine), well timed mana burns while los'ing can make or break the game (I hate facing drain teams, though).

I do have imp mana burn, though, and I wouldn't arena without it. I raid shadow and arena disc, though, so I can take otherwise useless talents with every respec.
User avatar
Abazoe
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:02 pm

Postby Evilducks » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:03 am

The mana burn nerf hurts, but honestly it's a bit overpowered. If I'm left to my own devices for 15 seconds I can completely wipe out the mana pool of any player. There isn't much a paladin can do to stop me since him not healing whoever we're focusing while he tries to hide from me essentially causes the same effect I was going after.

As for inner fire, yeah, it sucks compared to other classes self buff armors, but at the same time those classes can't shield, renew, PoM and PS themselves. All instant and uninterruptable. I don't understand why shadow priests don't spec holy disc... both do pretty much the same thing offensively, mana burn and burst. You can still SW:D and Mind Blast without being specced into shadow. Hell, you can still wear shadow gear.

You seem determined to play classes that just aren't really built for pvp right now. Honestly going into an arena as an enhance shammy or shadow priest right now only makes slightly more sense than going into one expecting to do well as a prot warrior. Those are your choices and you have to live with them. If you think I find it fun to have people focus me down first in arenas you're sadly mistaken, but that only happens because I'm a giant threat to most teams, where as other more pure healing classes like paladins are often left alone because honestly they're not that big of a problem and in the end it's more hassle than its worth.


If you think mana burn is useless in PvP you apparently haven't played against a priest that knows what they're doing. Go to any class forum with a mana bar and I'll wager you can find somebody bitching about mana burn. Hell, I've been known to throw my damn headphones in anger because I noticed a few seconds too late that I was being burned.

As for performing the same roll in raids as I do in arenas, nothing can be further from the truth. I use very few of the same spells. Renew, dispel and PoM are about it. Raiding for me is all about CoH and GH7 and healing . Arenas is very rarely about me healing and much more about me being a support class or MT. If I'm not being focused down then its my job to try and harry the other team long enough for our burst to win while throwing quick buffs to our team. Honestly the roles are nowhere near the same other than I happen to have healing spells in both cases.
________
RAMBLER REBEL
Last edited by Evilducks on Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Evilducks
 
Posts: 302
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:01 pm

Postby Dorgol » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:47 am

Evilducks wrote:If you think I find it fun to have people focus me down first in arenas you're sadly mistaken, but that only happens because I'm a giant threat to most teams, where as other more pure healing classes like paladins are often left alone because honestly they're not that big of a problem and in the end it's more hassle than its worth.

I love getting focused on my paladin... because I can SURVIVE being focused. On the absolute other hand, I HATE when teams rotate silences on me while ripping apart my teammates. Killing me first is fine. Killing my buddies in front of me is just sickening.

I won't pretend to comment on class balance, especially in Arenas. While I have decent gear (350 resil, 10k health, 1300 heal), I haven't participated in any Arena since before S3 started.
Boulderfist (US), Alliance
Dorgol, 70 Warlock
Uldor, 70 Warrior
Doralen, 70 Paladin
Police, 70 Mage
Dorgol
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:10 am

Postby lib3rator » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:04 pm

1300 bonus healing isn't decent for a pally >>
Image
User avatar
lib3rator
 
Posts: 206
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:47 am
Location: Greece Oo

Re: Patch 2.4 = Shamans Become The Worst Class In The Game

Postby Arcazua » Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:16 am

The Great JT wrote:With the shaman's lack of melee skills, no gear that's tailored specifically to Enhancement shamans, and...

I think shamans are really dying as a class in World of Warcraft. What are your thoughts?


I think that at least 3/4 of mail gear is tuned to shamans. Different specs, but it still leaves precious little in mail gear that hunters actually want, especially survival hunters who have specialized interests in gear. There are a lot of items that Blizzard tried to make dual purpose hunter + enh shaman. They're all better for the shaman -- or at least they've GOT to be, or else they just plain suck.

When your class takes a smaller piece of the mail pie, maybe I'll actually care. Until then, I'm making a lot of rogues QQ when I find items of their's that aren't overloaded with strength or hit rating.


Narya wrote:I dunno...some hunters that can shoot you for 3-4K is pretty close to this death touch imo >.>


The only way a hunter is hitting you for over 2k in one shot is with an Aimed Shot, and if you get Aimed Shot, you deserved it. It's not like we can press two buttons on the run and hit you for 6k, which is essentially what a PoM pyroblast does.


Krom wrote:I could go on a 12 page whiny shitfest rant about any class and it's usefulness to anyone would be slim to none and if anyone posted this kind of filth on the EJ forums they'd probably get banned and ushered back to the WoW General forums.


I dunno, I could go on a 12 page whiny shitfest rant about hunters, and it would make other people pretty content with their own class, knowing they don't have to learn differential equations to fine tune their character. Thankfully, I'm a math major, but that doesn't mean I enjoy math at that high a level on a regular basis.

Let's see...
5 pages on shot rotation mechanics
2 pages on itemization
2 pages on pet woes
1 page on buffs that overlook hunters
1 page on the ramifications of having mana for a non-casting class
1 page on lack of community understanding of hunters leading to being left out of 5-mans, put in random junk groups in raids with no synergy, and locking hunters out of some of their best loot upgrades.

And that's without getting into truly whiny crap. I mean, I'd like to be able to use a shield, (and I'm quite possibly the only hunter anywhere that actually cares because I'm a suicidal lunatic,) or a faster cooldown on traps so I can chain CC more easily, or get my quiver bag slot back, or add in all kinds of other additional stuff about pets that wouldn't be covered in the 2 pages of "pet woes"...but hey, if you think a 12 page rant wouldn't be useful for anything, then I won't bother to write one.
Image
Arcazua
DL Guild Member
 
Posts: 182
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 7:28 am

PreviousNext

Return to WoW

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests